Posts by Coded Logic

38

First post

by BenRichards in

jw
friends

i've been lurking here off and on for a few years, figured i would introduce myself and share the clif notes version of my story.. i'm in my late 30's and was born in.

mom was a jw, dad wasn't.

got baptized in my teens and started dating my eventual wife.

Welcome to the site Ben! Thanks for sharing your story. It's good to hear that you and your spouse came out of the orginazation together. I feel for a lot of people on this site who can't speak honestly to their spouse for fear of being outed.

As for your mom, if you really want to be able to reach here I wouldn't recomend just comming out and telling her everything you learned. The WTBTS is pretty good at hardening people against so called apostacy. You have to be away for a little while to gain perspective. I would recomend assuming the Null Hypothesis when speaking to her (not convinced one way of the other about the JWs) and keep the burden of proof on her.

If she asks, "Why did you stop going to the meetings?" You can always say something along the lines of "To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure that I have good reasons anymore for believing the things I used to believe."

If she asks why you feel that way - you can follow up with a question of your choice.

My favorites are:

"How do we know the Governing Body is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?"

Or, "If sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve and death is the price of sin, then why do animals suffer and die?"

Or, "If man cannot rule over man and all badness in the world is being allowed right now to vindicate Jehovah's soverignty, then why did God interfere in the past with things like the flood, and the tower of babel, and all the biblical wars?"

Asking these sorts of questions is a good method to get the person to actually think instead of getting defensive. Inclusive questions are good too. When given an anwer you don't buy you can always say "Yeah, but how do we know that's true?" or, "How could anyone really know that?" or "I understand that's what you believe, but is it actually true?"

If asked a direct question its usually best to either say "You know, I really don't know." or, "I'm not sure anyone could know that."

Just do your best to keep the burden of proof on her. She's the one who thinks she has all the answers - not you. Its a good method to test the waters and if a few of these conversations go well then it might be good to start bringing up some of the things that you have learned. But I definitely wouldn't recomend an all out assualt on first conversation.

Hope that helps :)

31

Disturbing cover picture November 2014 awake!

by stuckinarut2 in

oh wow..... i have just seen the cover picture for the november awake!.

sorry, i don't know how to post a picture here....(perhaps someone else can assist?).

it is just plain creepy.. the article is called "keys to a happy life".... but the looks on the faces say something different!

Coded Logic

I didn't know people smiling could be so creepy. The girl front and center looks like she just killed someone.

22

Help me help my DF'd friend

by OneEyedJoe in

jw
friends

so i got a text from a friend of mine today telling me that he'd been df'd.

since i'm still nominally a witness, this puts me in a tricky spot.

i intend to tell him in no uncertain terms that i will not shun him, but i'm not sure where to go beyond that.

Coded Logic

When one of my witness friends found out I was gay their exact words were, "You know my friendship is unconditional right? There is nothing you can do that will take that away."

That was about four years ago and I still can't help but tear up a bit everytime I think about it. Anyway, I think actually calling them and speaking with them would be MUCH BETTER than a text. Let them know that they have a friend in you and that your going to be there for them no matter what. I would also discourage asking why the got DFd. If they're comfortable sharing they'll bring it up. But chances are since its still so recent they're probably still a little shell shocked.

I would also strongly advise against talking about the society on your initial contact. Right now they need a friend and a sense of normalcy. Talk about that one time you guys were at that one place and that really funny thing happened. Talk about the latest episode of whatever. Just be a friend. You'll have plenty of time to talk about debunking the WTBTS later.

34

WTF THIS S*** IS REAL!!!!

by Yondaime in

as i am typing this post i am constantly looking over my shoulder to see if anybody is at my bedroom door lol guys i know i am stuck in a a cult.

but this s*** is f****** crazy!!!!.

w13 11/15 p.16 par.17 -- " at that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from jehovahs organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

Coded Logic

Wow, that is serriously scary. After already instructing witness to keep a "go bag" by their front door ( a durable, accessible, easy-to-transport bag containing important emergency items like non-perashible food, cash, extra pair of shoes, etc) this makes me wonder what hairbrained scheme they are going to come up with next?

Are they going to have everyone sell of their houses or what?

17

10% Way Through 1000 year reign

by Coded Logic in

not sure if anyones posted on this topic, but it just hit me that if jesus thousand year reign started in 1914 then we are already 10% way though and no "sign of the end" yet.

can the wtbts really hold out much longer?

are we going to have to wait for 3014 for them to admitt they got it wrong?.

Coded Logic

*2914

17

10% Way Through 1000 year reign

by Coded Logic in

not sure if anyones posted on this topic, but it just hit me that if jesus thousand year reign started in 1914 then we are already 10% way though and no "sign of the end" yet.

can the wtbts really hold out much longer?

are we going to have to wait for 3014 for them to admitt they got it wrong?.

Coded Logic

Not sure if anyones posted on this topic, but it just hit me that if Jesus thousand year reign started in 1914 then we are already 10% way though and no "sign of the end" yet. Can the WTBTS really hold out much longer? Are we going to have to wait for 3014 for them to admitt they got it wrong?

18

How have you changed since finding TTATT ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

on coftys thread about his former pastor trying to re-convert him, which is very long but a tremendous discussion of the problem of evil, a poster, sunny23, wrote :.

" having been 7 months since i first posted on the first page of this topic i have just read those posts and acknowledged a huge transfromation in myself for the better."..

i was only thinking the other day how, as i discovered this site and ttatt, i really changed as a person in so many ways, and i think mainly for the better.. i have been "born again" !!.

Coded Logic

We were always told that we needed to study more and needed to go out in service more and, that in this, we would find fullfillment. But, looking back now, I can see just how much the JW Doctrine is designed to stunt our ability to think and deaden our feelings of compassion. And its no wonder I used to feel so hollow inside. Because in order to reach my full potnential as a human being I needed to be able to use my entire brain. And I needed to be able to think for myself - both of which is greatly discouraged by the WTBTS.

It is aslo in retrospect that I can now see that my deconversion - and eventual path to Athiesm - wasn't a scientfic pursuit. Rather, it was a spiritual pursuit. It was me accepting my own humanity and learning to grow as a person. To be able to see the world as it is - without the need for any mysticism or appeals to the supernatural. And my skepticism hasn't just changed my mind . . . it's also expanded it.

I now know that the atoms of which you and I are composed were first manufactured and prototyped in the heart of a dying star. It gives me goose bumps to think that the carbon in our bodies are the remnants of a super nova. Because its not just we who are inside the universe but it is also the universe that is inside of us. We are the univers seeking to understand itself. When I look up into the stary night I'm often saddened because I know I will never reach those stars within my lifetime. But that saddness always turns to joy because the star light has reached out across the ages and the eons and has touched me. And I now know that the more I learn about those stars the more I will understand our universe. And the more I understand our universe . . . the more I begin to understand myself.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

Coded Logic

I've noticed that there are a number of people on this post playing a shell game with the word "faith". When I started this thread I was very specific in my definition: Believing something without evidence or contrary to evidence.

I will ask that any further post keep this in mind and not put forth alternate definitions of the word as it only muddies the water. I believe that hope, trust, conviction, etc. are all good things. HOWEVER, I do not believe that one should blieve things without evidence or contrary to evidence.

I believe this because our beliefs are the gate keepers of our actions. What we believe directly informs how we behave. And if we want to know whats out on the horizon we don't use a kaleidoscope but, rather, we use a telescope. Likewise, when we want to make determinations about reality we don't use faith but, rather, we use reason. Because good intentions are only as good as the information upon which they are based. If I see a man about to chop off a childs arm and I stop him from doing so - I MIGHT be committing a moral action. However, if it turns out the man was a doctor and the childs arm had gangreen - then I would, in fact, be committing an immoral action. Because what is morally true is ENTIRELY DEPENDENT upon what is actually true. And faith is the worst possible system for figuring out what is true. It can only ever be moral by accident.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

Coded Logic

" Who determines what is right?"

We do. Human well being is the metric we use to determine what is right and what is wrong. Things that promote human well being are considered good. Things that cause human suffering and harm are bad. Life is generally preferable to death. Pleasure is generally preferable to pain. We start with these basic principles and use things like induction and, conversley, deduction to weigh our moral actions.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

Coded Logic

Jgnat - The short answer is Mirrior Neurons and our large Frontal Lobes. There's been tremendouse research done on this exact question - if you're really interested in this sort of thing I would recomend that you familiarize yourself with COGNITIVE EMPATHY, EMPATHIC DISTRESS, and THEORY of MIND.

Here's a great little video that goes over some of the basics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g